237 replies to this topic

[Kevin]

It's Nova.

[Busjack]

Nova.

I just found it, but you beat me. The power of the administrator. Press Release.

The other thing of interest to us is " following delivery of a prototype in December with full-production expected to begin in February 2014."

And as far as the articulated buses "The CTA's plans for an upcoming purchase of up to 150 new articulated (60-foot) clean diesel and hybrid buses, which are also part of the bus fleet modernization plan announced in 2012, will be announced upon completion of the procurement process." No indication whether the procurement process was hung up for the reason jajuan said or something else (one would at least think that NF could have met existing specs, but you never know).

And for the person who started this thread with a "gotcha," it looks like the long standing members of this group got it about right, and you didn't get a commission on this deal. As Judge Marilyn Milan says "so, sad, too bad."

[jajuan]

As I noted above, the addendum changed that to up to a total of 600 buses over 5 years, not the sliding scale originally advertised.

The only thing I would read into this was jajuan's speculation about why the initial quantity of the 60 foot buses was not on the agenda.

You would have guessed correctly. I was looking at this as maybe they're rethinking their game plan on the 60 foot front as it's possible that they looked at their available garage space currently on hand and how fast they can get upgrades done to increase it, and thinking they might want to stick closer to just 50 artics (the minimum under the initial announcement) under this mixed order of buses for now under those circumstances. I wasn't saying that they weren't going to get anymore at all after the 100 currently being delivered.

It would be interesting if they did bypass both New Flyer and NOVA and went with El Dorado for the Axxess model. If that were to happen I think one with endcaps like the two red and white models and the green and white from the brochure you linked would look good on Chicago streets. But I definitely would like to see them go New Flyer and get the 40 foot LFRs.

[Busjack]

You would have guessed correctly. I was looking at this as maybe they're rethinking their game plan on the 60 foot front as it's possible that they looked at their available garage space currently on hand and how fast they can get upgrades done to increase it, and thinking they might want to stick closer to just 50 artics (the minimum under the initial announcement) under this mixed order of buses for now under those circumstances. I wasn't saying that they weren't going to get anymore at all after the 100 currently being delivered.

But as indicated in the Press Release (maybe you didn't see it when you posted), they didn't pull the plug on the minimum 50 either, at this time; the procurement process continues.

[jajuan]

But as indicated in the Press Release (maybe you didn't see it when you posted), they didn't pull the plug on the minimum 50 either, at this time; the procurement process continues.

Oh no I don't mean they pulled the plug. I was thinking maybe they're considering staying very close to that 50 minimum.

[jajuan]

Just saw Kevin's reporting that they're going NOVA so we can just scratch what I was pondering on Axxess and D40LFRs. And most of us were indeed right that it was going to be either NOVA or New Flyer, and this time it was NOVA that one out. That's quite a setup that they're replacing NOVAs for NOVAs.

[Busjack]

Oh no I don't mean they pulled the plug. I was thinking maybe they're considering staying very close to that 50 minimum.

And, after reading both posts, I realize I made an error in metaphor.

I meant to say that they didn't pull the "on switch." In short what I meant was that CTA could have given someone the minimum order for 50 buses today, too, but did not. Whether it is because CTA doesn't have the garage space, it doesn't know how many hybrids or diesels it wants, or there are still unresolved issues with Nova's and NF's bids is not disclosed at the moment.

I bet, though, the wait isn't for the Millennium RTS Extreme artic.

[jajuan]

And, after reading both posts, I realize I made an error in metaphor.

I meant to say that they didn't pull the "on switch." In short what I meant was that CTA could have given someone the minimum order for 50 buses today, too, but did not. Whether it is because CTA doesn't have the garage space, it doesn't know how many hybrids or diesels it wants, or there are still unresolved issues with Nova's and NF's bids is not disclosed at the moment.

I bet, though, the wait isn't for the Millennium RTS Extreme artic.

As if Millenium had a chance for reasons that both you and I pointed out to Mr. East. All it took was correctly reading the RFPs and stipulations of what CTA was saying it wanted outside of the RFP documentation, not to mention the big NABI fiasco with having gone with an unproven bus model and have that blow up in their faces, to know it would have been wishful thinking on Millenium's part despite CTA having had RTS buses under TMC's construction.

[Busjack]

, if NOVA Bus, LFS(the ones with the fin on the end of the bus)

Since Nova got the contract, I looked and finally found what I didn't on the past two trips, i.e. that Nova has redesigned the rear of their bus. So, while they'll still have a rear window, the vent will not be as pronounced as before.

[Kevin]

So, while they'll still have a rear window, the vent will not be as pronounced as before.

The latest interior design allows for the option of no rear window. TTMG's blog has a photo.

[jajuan]

The latest interior design allows for the option of no rear window. TTMG's blog has a photo.

Your link to blog triggered my memory that I did see online that NOVA had built a NOVA artic with no rear window for NYC's MTA.

[Mr.cta85]

Lol wow cta went with nova I see quite surprising I must say but I think that's cool to do its good to know there will still be Novas around after the originals are retired. Even cooler the new versions don't look that different from our current versions good job cta! But I would still like to see the D40LFR buses roaming the city lol.

[Busjack]

The latest interior design allows for the option of no rear window. TTMG's blog has a photo.

Ewww. It is hard to tell from the photo how many step ups it takes to get to the rear seats.

Now the question comes back to the 1990 one, i.e. does CTA still want a rear window if it can get one?

[sw4400]

The CTA will probably keep the bus stock flush with each other, so I would look for them to order LFS buses with no rear window.

Powertrains for the NOVA LFS 40' diesel models is the Cummins ISL 8.9 280 HP Engine paired with a ZF Ecolife(6 Sp.), Allison B400R(6 Sp.) or Voith D864.5E(4 Sp.) Transmission.

If they go with NOVA Bus for the articulated buses, they'll be the longest in CTA history as bumper to bumper, they are measured at 62' long.

I would guess the NOVA LFS prototype would be delivered to CTA between October, 2013 and January, 2014

[Busjack]

...

Powertrains for the NOVA LFS 40' diesel models is the Cummins ISL 8.9 280 HP Engine paired with a ZF Ecolife(6 Sp.), Allison B400R(6 Sp.) or Voith D864.5E(4 Sp.) Transmission.
...
I would guess the NOVA LFS prototype would be delivered to CTA between October, 2013 and January, 2014

Nova has on its site that they were working with Cummins on an EPA 2013 ISL9 engine for a 40 foot diesel bus. As far as ZF, there were the prior Q&A, at least involving NF, that the ZF didn't meet specs.

And, as I pointed out earlier, the Press Release said "following delivery of a prototype in December with full-production expected to begin in February 2014." So you don't have to speculate about that.

[sw4400]

Nova has on its site that they were working with Cummins on an EPA 2013 ISL9 engine for a 40 foot diesel bus. As far as ZF, there were the prior Q&A, at least involving NF, that the ZF didn't meet specs.

Well it's a transmission option for the NOVA LFS, along with the Allison and Voith transmissions. As far as New Flyer and ZF, pace2322 said the D60LFR's have ZF transmissions.

[sw4400]

And, as I pointed out earlier, the Press Release said "following delivery of a prototype in December with full-production expected to begin in February 2014." So you don't have to speculate about that.

What a treat for people who like buses, like our chicagobus.org slogan says...

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Busjack]

Since we can now turn to speculation about the 60 foot bus component of the program, I found this video of a Nova artic's traction in the snow interesting.

At least it reminded me of a TV story (I guess now 9 years ago) about one NABI artic stuck in the snow on Michigan Ave. at Grant Park being pushed by another, not that I thought it was possible.

And I thought the bus was going to whack the car backing out of the driveway.

Et pardonnez mon français.

[artthouwill]

Not sure how I feel about Nova winning this bid other than the fleet not being totally vanilla with all NFs. When I was in the Twin Cities, the thing I hated about Metro was it was all Gillig.Phantoms, save some NF artics. Would be nice if RTA could bid buses for both CTA and Pace...we know the story.

Now that Archer garage property has been sold, is there really a need to bid for any more artics? Maybe they can house some at 123 N Racine or the CTA property near Lake and Pulaski or the facility on Division near Goose Island.

[Busjack]

...

Now that Archer garage property has been sold, is there really a need to bid for any more artics? Maybe they can house some at 123 N Racine or the CTA property near Lake and Pulaski or the facility on Division near Goose Island.

I would think that the need for them is independent of whether there currently is a garage for them. Obviously, Archer wasn't going to be it. Goose Island would seem to make sense from a downtown deadhead angle, but there has been nothing official said about any new garage.

It doesn't look like any would be coming before 2015, for the reason jajuan said or otherwise.