[BusExpert32]

http://www.chicagobr...-fare-hike.html

I guess I'm fine with the fare hikes for the train and express routes, but no more "X" express routes- that just sucks (most of them were really doing well).

[rotjohns]

And the fare hikes would put Chicago amongst the highest in the country. Higher than NY and LA. Although both of them have no transfer options, an all day pass is way cheaper at both NY and LA than here. I know both transit companies probably are having the same problems as the CTA, but it sure seems like the CTA is deeper in debt than maybe both of them combined.

[jacksone44]

rotjohns, on 12 October 2009 - 09:29 AM, said:

And the fare hikes would put Chicago amongst the highest in the country. Higher than NY and LA. Although both of them have no transfer options, an all day pass is way cheaper at both NY and LA than here. I know both transit companies probably are having the same problems as the CTA, but it sure seems like the CTA is deeper in debt than maybe both of them combined.

The NY MTA just closed a $1.2 BILLION dollar deficit this year through a combination of additional state funding (which has received a ton of criticism) and fare and toll hikes. The NY MTA has so much debt, that roughly $2 of every $10 it collects goes to servicing the $26 Billion in debt that it has.

[dauber]

MTA in New York isn't $3...YET. It WILL BE soon, though, according to a news report I saw on WNBC when I was out there not too long ago.

[sw4400]

my 2 cents worth:

The Senior Ride Program has GOT TO GO or be allowed only for those who are in a certain set income bracket. This is what's hurting the CTA the most!!! I mean, how many Seniors can't afford to pay .50 cents, .75 cents, or $1 even? I hate to rip on them, but they go on cruises, play Bingo(which is $8-$25, maybe more depending on the pots). If they can do these things, then I think they can pay that little fare. Anybody agree???

[Busjack]

The 2010 budget book is now posted here. Times are so tight, that Rodriguez had to sign his entire name in the space for one letter. I'll look it over to see if anything else jumps out.

[Busjack]

If you want a surprise, here's one:

Quote

Savings will be generated from closing the more than 100 year-old Archer Garage and retiring buses put
into service in 1995.

The 5 year capital plan basically only talks about the replacement of the Novas near the end of it. No need for the contract for up to 900 articulated buses, nor the base order for 140?


Also, the X28 isn't killed.

[BusHunter]

Ouch! Obviously, all the other garages are going to have to be restructured as far as street assignments. Being Archer is about a 240 bus garage. They may have to divide this total 7 ways to avoid Kedzie and 74th being overburdened.

[Busjack]

BusHunter, on 12 October 2009 - 12:35 PM, said:

Ouch! Obviously, all the other garages are going to have to be restructured as far as street assignments. Being Archer is about a 240 bus garage. They may have to divide this total 7 ways to avoid Kedzie and 74th being overburdened.

Of course, one has to take into account the X route and frequency cuts that are part of the budget. For instance, 74 loses X9, 53AL, and X55. Archer loses X49. If X80 bites it, 76 or maybe 54 probably goes to FG, and with X20 biting it, something goes to C; K gets back 21 and 60. 74 is depleted by losing the 3 routes, but probably can then pick up what's left from Archer. Also, Karnac predicts some realignment of 8 and 49 (back to the 74th/NP split for the latter?).

It is somewhat surprising that the number of buses to be cut equals the number of 6000s.

[sw4400]

Maybe it's not all Free Senior Rides, but they gotta either go or be given to only those that are in a certain income bracket, like the Illinois LINK program. That'll help a lot with income, especially since the CTA gives about 1-3 million in Free Rides yearly because of this crap program. That's $1-3 million more the CTA could've had!!! Look at this quote from the ABC7 story... full link here: http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=7059728

Riders say $3 fares would be too hefty of a fee.
"I take the train to save money and I don't have a car. So it has to be worked in the budget to see if it's worth it to buy a car at that point," said Noah Walman, CTA rider.
"That's bad. Well, basically, I mean, how much more can it go up? $4? $5? For the next two or three years? I mean, I don't think we can afford it anymore if it keeps going up," said Younggang Yu, CTA rider

[BusHunter]

There are 287 #6000's left. Obviously, they project that many buses less in service. If you divide that roughly 7 ways, that's about a 41 bus loss (rough estimate) for each existing garage. Maybe each garage could pick up 3 or 4 routes. Probably 74th or 103rd would pick up the Optimas for the U of C service. With service frequencies projected to decrease, I don't know how good an Optima will be now. I would think there would be more demand for the Artics especially along the #22 or #151. Even FG routes like #77 or #81 may suffer.

[Buslover88]

sw4400, on 12 October 2009 - 11:02 AM, said:

The Senior Ride Program has GOT TO GO or be allowed only for those who are in a certain set income bracket. This is what's hurting the CTA the most!!! I mean, how many Seniors can't afford to pay .50 cents, .75 cents, or $1 even? I hate to rip on them, but they go on cruises, play Bingo(which is $8-$25, maybe more depending on the pots). If they can do these things, then I think they can pay that little fare. Anybody agree???

I most definately agree. This is hurting alot of people.

[Busjack]

BusHunter, on 12 October 2009 - 01:50 PM, said:

There are 287 #6000's left. Obviously, they project that many buses less in service. If you divide that roughly 7 ways, that's about a 41 bus loss (rough estimate) for each existing garage. If you add to that with 1/7th of Archer's buses, roughly 34 for each garage, that would give each garage about 75 buses extra to work with for additional routes to be assigned. Maybe each garage could pick up 3 or 4 routes. Probably 74th or 103rd would pick up the Optimas for the U of C service. With service frequencies projected to increase, I don't know how good an Optima will be now. I would think there would be more demand for the Artics especially along the #22 or #151. Even FG routes like #77 or #81 may suffer.

I think you meant decrease. (Or service intervals increasing.)

But, to get to the point, do we think at this point there is a swap in the works that the 6000s get dumped, and basically Archer's 6400s are swapped for them? Of course, that would get FG back to an almost all Nova lot, which we unsuccessfully predicted about 2 years ago, unless it gets more NFs than the 30 or so reported so far. Or will the maintenance gurus say they don't want 200 NFs and 40 Novas in most of the remaining garages (103, C, and K) nor a "double allocation" at 74 and FG?

To avoid those who said I left out NP, I don't see it having other than NFs. I also left out 77, because it already has Novas and not 6000s.

[BusExpert32]

I would propose to keep the "X" routes but make the basic fare $3.00 for them too. I'm not believing that every single 'X" route will be eliminated and Archer Garage will close either, but nobody has to believe me (2007????).

[Busjack]

BusExpert32, on 12 October 2009 - 05:06 PM, said:

...I'm not believing that every single 'X" route will be eliminated and Archer Garage will close either, but nobody has to believe me (2007????).

What makes me think this is different from 2007 is that (1) it seems a measured response, rather than the 2007 one of "we have to take $220 M out of the budget to meet a $55 M shortfall" and "we have to go to a Sunday schedule," regardless of the result, and (2) unlike the 2007 threats being used to get more "funding," there doesn't seem to be a backup plan for a "Moving Beyond Congestion" bandwagon, or additional aid from a broke state (especially where there isn't a Gov. Blago to pull $27 million out of the hat).

I'm a little less convinced regarding how firm the Pace cuts are, but still think most of them will also happen. Apparently the RTA gave the service boards different marching orders this year (i.e. no statement in the 2010 budget that the RTA had assured them that more state funding was coming, like were in the 2008 budgets).

[RJL6000]

Also note that the CTA's proposed budget mentions only a single 7-day pass. Since the beginning of this year, the CTA has been selling two different 7-day passes--one is CTA-only, the other is a slightly higher priced CTA/Pace pass. Presumably, the single 7-day pass mentioned is the CTA-only pass, while the CTA/Pace pass would be phased out. The 30-day pass would also be restricted to use on CTA only since Pace would have a completely different--and incompatible--fare collection system by the time the changes actually get implemented. As a result, there would no longer be transfers between CTA and Pace as we know it since transferring between the two systems would then require the payment of an additional full or reduced fare (this would have to be the case since Pace would then transition to a "cash-only" fare system which accepts only cash or credit/debit cards but not transfers or passes).

[jajuan]

You know, I am really getting tired of this nonsense with this city and this state. Every year there is some new crisis somewhere when it comes to finances. Granted a part of it is valid given the tough economic times but part of it is waste too. I'm with sw4400. There is no need for every senior in the region to get free rides. That's a load of crap to say every senior is burdened financially when it's not the case. There are some seniors who are able to pay something. Those who can should be able to pay the $1 reduced fare that is paid by children 7 and older, students up through high school age, and the many of the disabled who are not enrolled in the Circuit Permit program through RTA. One thing that aggravates me more is that there is one person commenting on the article who gave his frustration with a neighbor who apparently is a CTA employee who works only 3-4 hours a day as he tells it and spends the rest of his work day at home washing his car, mowing his lawn and otherwise goofing off on CTA time and dime, but there is no indication that he reported this neighbor to the CTA Inspector General as suggested by another who gave his comment on the matter. How about cutting out the waste such as this guy and all the extra pencil pushing bureacrats brought in under Kruesi, and any other high paid bureaucrat whose need is questionable, working there before coming yet again to the riders, a lot of us who don't have other transportation options in this city, asking them to pay more for less. Also actually provide funding that's tied to sources that are actually stable and don't fluctuate wildly like the alternatives they came up in 2007, as pointed out by another person whose comment I saw for the article. We basically got one structurally flawed funding system substituted for another, since it should have dawned on someone in government that the economic picture would not always be so rosy as to provide the amounts projected when the economy is in good shape. Put in administrators who actually know something about the system their asked to head who won't make questionable decisions that loses the agency boatloads of money that it says it doesn't have. Yet when things come crashing down again, we're expected to suck it up and accept being hit in the pocket again because of this idiotic nonsense. It's gotten beyond ridiculous.

[RJL6000]

jajuan, on 12 October 2009 - 10:12 PM, said:

I'm with sw4400. There is no need for every senior in the region to get free rides. That's a load of crap to say every senior is burdened financially when it's not the case. There are some seniors who are able to pay something. Those who can should be able to pay the $1 reduced fare that is paid by children 7 and older, students up through high school age, and the many of the disabled who are not enrolled in the Circuit Permit program through RTA.

Actually, not every senior currently gets a free ride on CTA's or Pace's fixed routes. Since April, free rides are restricted to those seniors who hold the "smart"-chipped Reduced Ride Permit issued by the RTA. There are many seniors who chose to hold the magnetic-striped Reduced Fare Permit rather than the chipped one; those seniors now pay the reduced fare. And of course, seniors who fail to display a valid Reduced Fare Permit are charged the full adult fare.

[Busjack]

RJL6000, on 12 October 2009 - 10:07 PM, said:

Also note that the CTA's proposed budget mentions only a single 7-day pass. Since the beginning of this year, the CTA has been selling two different 7-day passes--one is CTA-only, the other is a slightly higher priced CTA/Pace pass. Presumably, the single 7-day pass mentioned is the CTA-only pass, while the CTA/Pace pass would be phased out. The 30-day pass would also be restricted to use on CTA only since Pace would have a completely different--and incompatible--fare collection system by the time the changes actually get implemented. As a result, there would no longer be transfers between CTA and Pace as we know it since transferring between the two systems would then require the payment of an additional full or reduced fare (this would have to be the case since Pace would then transition to a "cash-only" fare system which accepts only cash or credit/debit cards but not transfers or passes).

I don't know that this is necessarily the case. It was the CTA that was talking about transitioning to bank smart cards. Then the RTA picked up the idea.

There are numerous holes in this budget book, but it would be just as easy to assume that the CTA/Pace 7 day card goes up to $35.00. We'll have to wait to see what is in the Pace budget (since the impetus for the CTA/Pace card was Pace, which refused to take the $23 card). Since CTA shows that it consistently doesn't recognize Pace, it is too early to make this deduction.CTA has said that it won't take Pace transfers, but Pace has yet to say what it won't take (except for CTA media for which it gets no reimbursement).

As for the seniors, Metra has posted that those without the RTA chip card, but having a Medicare card or similar ID pay half fare.

[RJL6000]

Busjack, on 12 October 2009 - 10:30 PM, said:

CTA has said that it won't take Pace transfers, but Pace has yet to say what it won't take (except for CTA media for which it gets no reimbursement).

Actually, Pace no longer takes the CTA 1- or 3-day passes or the CTA-only 7-day pass as of the beginning of this year. The only CTA passes Pace currently accepts are the CTA/Pace 7-day pass and the 30-day pass. (Of course, Pace accepts the CTA Transit Card and the Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus.)